tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post6946981016945343098..comments2023-11-12T09:52:42.825-05:00Comments on Medieval Woman: Blogging with Historical Novelist Susan Higginbotham: The Unlucky De La Pole FamilySusan Higginbothamhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comBlogger13125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-57688182273884333472011-04-14T09:31:02.350-04:002011-04-14T09:31:02.350-04:00Has anyone found a link between these families and...Has anyone found a link between these families and the Poole's?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04264974733959237225noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-78259629453807984772010-02-14T22:59:13.759-05:002010-02-14T22:59:13.759-05:00I have a Pole in our family tree...and Halls(from ...I have a Pole in our family tree...and Halls(from Leceister) who were known to the #3rd earl of Huntingdon ...Henry Hastings (i think) and it seems that pole comes from the de la pole line...my grandma said we were also the Halls that married Susanna Shakespeare.....But havent found that link yet although the Halls in 1616 were at Ashby-de-la zouch as well.....i know that Henry 8th stripped titles and land off "our" Halls for being loyal to the Yorkists so maybe its truth...alahnahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/12133299519976738047noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-37333260294955253452009-11-23T17:16:05.576-05:002009-11-23T17:16:05.576-05:00Zquilts and LadyD, glad you liked it! Trish, thank...Zquilts and LadyD, glad you liked it! Trish, thanks for the information!Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-79785292197241053312009-11-23T12:19:09.905-05:002009-11-23T12:19:09.905-05:00Mystery solved.
It is Welshpool -the Welsh only ...Mystery solved. <br /><br />It is Welshpool -the Welsh only being added to the Pool in the 1830's to avoid confusion with Poole in Dorset. Originally it was Y Trallwng but when the Saesnegs (similar to Sassenach Scottish) Saxons = English came along they changed the name to Burgus de Pola anglicised to Pool(e) and de la Pole mean simply 'of the Pool'<br /><br />Family bad luck started almost soon as the father of Prince Gruffudd -yes he was a Prince of Powis-Wenwynwyn - lost out to Llewellyn Mawr who turns up in Penman's book 'There be dragons’ and by the time it came to Prince Gruffudd's son Owain the first to use the de la Pole name the <br />princedom had been abolished and they had to be content with being mere Marcher lords.<br /><br />I can’t quite make the jump to Hull but Owen’s dividing his inheritance between himself and his brothers details of which can be found in the Calendar of Patent Rolls for 1342/ 496-7. He did have a brother called William but despite conjecture he is not the father of that William the successful financier of Hull. It seems the DLPs of Welshpool are not the same family as the DLPs of Hull and the so called genealogical tables are viewed with suspicion. <br /><br />One peerage table states that the male line died out with Owen’s son whose sister Hawyse married John Cherleton who was Chamberlain to Edward II some time before 1314! To make things even merrier his grandson died at the Castle of Pool, Poole Dorset! His paternal uncle who succeeded him was the maternal grandfather of John Tiptoft, Earl of Worcester the English Dracula and the Cherletons were also related to the Mortimers, Fitzalan and Audley families whose daughters became their spouses. In fact the wife of Hawyse’s son was Maud de Mortimer daughter of Roger and Joan nee de Geneville! Oh this criss-crossing off genealogies!<br /><br />Just as well that Prestatyn (priest's farm) kept its Welsh name. Otherwise we might have two Prestons not one and even more confusion given all the surnames of Preston!trish wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292123010612021866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-80060606213191297072009-11-23T04:19:43.078-05:002009-11-23T04:19:43.078-05:00What an unlucky family. I must admit, although I h...What an unlucky family. I must admit, although I have been aware of their name, I didn't know much about them, so thankyou for this very informational post Susan.Jules Frusherhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08207281934232383811noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-9578815530294649122009-11-22T14:37:38.589-05:002009-11-22T14:37:38.589-05:00Even more unfortunate were the English taxpayers w...Even more unfortunate were the English taxpayers when Maximilian the Emperor used the De la Poles to blackmail Henry VII.<br /><br />That was until his son Philip on his way from Burgundy to Spain was blown off course and ended up in England. <br /><br />Following the big pow-wow in Windsor Castle Edmund was soon on his way home.<br /><br />Interesting to learn that his brother Richard died at the Battle of Pavia 1525. That suggests to me he’d taken up service with Francois 1 of France<br /><br />I am sorry Sue but I really have to take issue with Debbi. There is no such town as Poole in Wales. The only town in the UK called Poole is on the south coast of England and I’m speaking as someone with a very good Welsh pedigree.<br /><br />Unless of course some confusion has arisen in the matter of Y Trallwng – English name Welshpool.trish wilsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/01292123010612021866noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-9875674530124444152009-11-22T13:10:09.678-05:002009-11-22T13:10:09.678-05:00SusN! Thank you for such a wonderful, educational ...SusN! Thank you for such a wonderful, educational post! It cleared up a lot if questions about the DeLa Poles that I'd had for some time. I always look forward to your posts - and of course your books too !mzjohansenhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/09099656264060749484noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-30941752949683199392009-11-18T23:23:50.008-05:002009-11-18T23:23:50.008-05:00Hi, Debbi! The only thing I have about the earlies...Hi, Debbi! The only thing I have about the earliest de la Poles is Rosemary Horrox's pamphlet for the East Yorkshire Local History Society, "The De la Poles of Hull." She states that the family first shows up in records in 1316 and can't be traced back further than that. She does mention the theory that they were descended from the Welsh princes of Powys, but she rejects it. But I'll leave that up to the genealogists!Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-81139156991797129852009-11-18T22:03:56.686-05:002009-11-18T22:03:56.686-05:00Hi Susan, I think the Poles and de la Poles were t...Hi Susan, I think the Poles and de la Poles were the same family, but I'm not certain. I do know that the first de la Pole took his name from the Welsh town of Poole. He was the son of Gruffudd ap Gwenwynwyn who fought against the last true Prince of Wales. My husband's maternal grandmother was a Dickenson, and some genealogies have her descended from Catherine de la Pole, daughter of the first Michael in your post. Other genealogies are entirely different, though, so I don't really know which to believe!Debbihttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08145735953197313094noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-60622743870470656262009-11-18T19:25:54.329-05:002009-11-18T19:25:54.329-05:00Alianore, it is, isn't it? An unfortuante bunc...Alianore, it is, isn't it? An unfortuante bunch!<br /><br />Cmc, glad you liked it. William must have had a strong case of survivor's guilt, I think.<br /><br />Susie, Boswell thanks you! I'll go over to read your post on Margaret Pole. I think the Poles and the de la Poles were different families, though--poles apart, you might say. Hazel Bird says that Geoffrey Pole, father of the Richard Pole whom Margaret married, was originally from Wales.Susan Higginbothamhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13517907583894026599noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-14136691222754167002009-11-18T15:55:46.193-05:002009-11-18T15:55:46.193-05:00Oh indeed they were!! I did a blog a few months ag...Oh indeed they were!! I did a blog a few months ago on Margaret Pole<br />http://tudordaughter.blogspot.com/2009/05/fridays-royal-ancestor-margaret-pole.html.<br /><br />By the way I just adore Boswell!!! What a cutie. Of course I am bias to terriers.Tudor Daughterhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/16131682484394615563noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-46582200629358309752009-11-18T13:13:57.797-05:002009-11-18T13:13:57.797-05:00Susan, thanks for such an interesting post! Espec...Susan, thanks for such an interesting post! Especially for the backstory surrounding the events at Jargeau- the terrible distress and guilt De La Pole must have felt at the time, first the shame of having his butt kicked by a girl, so to speak, secondly losing two brothers in the battle. <br />While I can't excuse his actions in regards to the nun the night before he surrendered in 1429, De La Pole does strike me as a very strong person to keep on going in the face of such brutal setbacks. Many men (like Margaret Beaufort's father) would have been broken by shame and grief.Carolinehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/04141596690877233633noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-21031350.post-47629959871970247352009-11-18T04:11:57.671-05:002009-11-18T04:11:57.671-05:00Wow, what a dramatic family saga!Wow, what a dramatic family saga!Kathryn Warnerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/00397714441908100576noreply@blogger.com